FOR SOMEONE HUNG UP ON WHAT'S TRUE AND WHAT'S A LIE, YOU'RE REALLY GOING ALL-IN ON THIS SUDDEN IMPULSE TO CONNECT. THEY'RE EXPLOITING HOW EASY IT IS TO WIN YOU OVER, YA KNOW. BUT ARE THEY GONNA STAY FOR THIRTY YEARS? OR HAVE YOU NEVER HAD ANYBODY BESIDES ME STAY THAT LONG, BECAUSE YOU REPLACED THEM WITH SOMETHING NEW AND EXCITING?
[Both true and designed to twist and manipulate what's actually happening, which is Ford getting out of a frankly horribly abusive interpersonal connection. You can't even reasonably call this a friendship, since neither of them are pretending to like each other.]
I BROKE YOUR DEAL. I CAN'T UN-HURT ANYBODY. THAT'S ALL I GOT. CONSIDER ME GONE.
[True. He sounds bitter this time. He actually has no idea if Ford's going to regret this but he needs to cut his losses like he should have way earlier on. He's really good at predicting that people don't give a damn. It becomes a self-fulfulling prophecy. Most prophecies are.]
[Oh wow what a horrible thing to remind him of. He isn't that easy to win over, come on. Right?
He's been making things for the people on the ship he likes. What if he has been extending trust too easily? What if he's just going to end up used again?
Whoops, desperate isn't a good look, and exploitably gullible is even worse. A wall that had come down around Ford's heart creeps back up.]
I don't--
[He sighs. Wearily:]
I don't expect them to.
[But I won't be here long enough for that to matter dies in his throat. How long is it going to take to make sure Bill is under control? He doesn't know. It won't matter to Stan or the kids, they won't know the difference, but for Ford? It could be years. It feels like a very, very long road stretching out in front of him.
Strangely, the brightest spot on it was what he'd been thinking about a minute ago: the possibility that maybe, if Bill does stay here long enough, he might change. The hope had dimmed when Ford had found out it was him, and Bill had said things about I think I watched you die and I don't even recognize you. He'd known, then, that there was nothing he could do: Ford Pines is not the man for this job, and he's never going to offer Bill what Bill has been missing. But Bill has also said That's all I got and I can't un-hurt anybody. Weird things to say to someone you find disgusting.
Ford sighs. Okay. This is probably going to amount to nothing, but there's just enough room for doubt that he's going to ask.]
Fine. But before you go, and this is really over, there's one last thing I want to discuss.
Are you only letting me out of this deal because you don't want it anymore? Because I'm never going to be what you do want ever again, and you've given up?
[He doesn't sound hopeful. Mostly, he sounds resigned. Ford's expecting yes. He's expecting it to be for the reasons Bill outlined, and nothing else. He's imagining the very possibility. But better to clear it up now than to wonder later and not have the chance to bring it up.]
[He was talking about the other Pines, first off. Bill's not half as jealous of anybody Ford's going to find in this crowd of chucklefucks. Pine Tree et al are a PROBLEM.
But, he doesn't get the misunderstanding, and the next part's more important anyway. Bill's expression pinches; his brow folds to a stressed little peak in the middle. If Ford was any good, he'd already have the answer just from this, but -
Ford's no good. That's one of the reasons Bill can just relax around him, because Ford CAN surprise Bill, sometimes, but Bill still doesn't need to be actually careful the way he would around, say, Erskine, or Cold. He can afford to telegraph a little. It's safe. (Alright, maybe that's a little far. SafER. Bill is ultimately not worried about anything Ford could do to him.)]
YES.
[Ring flashes. Lie. Bill's expression twists even more.]
IT'S ...SOMETHING YOU WANTED, AND I COULD DO IT.
LIKE I SAID. I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT YOU WANT OUT OF ME ANY MORE.
[.......thank fuck for that ring and the 75 comments establishing that Ford is willing to accept it as reliable because otherwise, this sounds ffffffake.
But this whole conversation has happened based on the premise that the ring can be relied upon to determine truth--at least, the truth as Bill sees it. So, until something happens that undermines that premise, Ford will accept it.
And...Ford makes an expression like he's just been handed something he has absolutely no idea what to do with. Like someone else's ice cream. Or four kittens. Or an emotion. No, seriously, what on earth is he supposed to do with this?
The effects of the act themselves don't mean much. Ford can't be possessed anyway; he has the plate for that. Mechanically, it doesn't change anything Bill can or can't do to him. It's, ha ha, it is the thought that counts, here -- because it's the thought that he matters enough to Bill Cipher for Bill to consider a thing he, Ford, might want. Even though Ford isn't interested in the games Bill misses. Even though Bill knows he never will be.
Bill might graduate. Certainly not soon, and Ford has a deep suspicion that by-the-books graduation is not Bill's plan A (Bill hates rules, hates systems, he's not going to not cheat) but if Bill stays here long enough, he might. Ford both wants and doesn't want to believe it. But isn't he himself proof that no matter how old you are, it isn't too late to change?]
Bill, I--
[What does Ford want? He wants to not have to worry about Bill, absolutely. He wants to use what he knows about Bill keep the people on the Barge and the rest of the multiverse safe from him. He wants to go home with a clear conscience. He wants to see his family again. He doesn't want a life with Bill in it.
(He's building a containment unit specifically made for Bill. This is awkward.)]
Aaaah, what you want and what I want are fundamentally incompatible.
That said...even though the reason I made the deal in the first place is because you lied to me, and you've taken advantage of it countless times to do me harm, and really it won't make a difference at all because I've still got this plate in my head, and I know for a fact that you're doing this at least partially because you don't want anything to do with me and that includes an outstanding mystic bargain, so you really don't deserve it, but...
[He breathes in, then blows out a sigh. He really had better do this, hadn't he. Ford can't believe he's about to, but he...he feels he should. It doesn't make a difference mechanically, but it is a gesture. Maybe it'll matter, maybe it won't. Who knows.]
YEAH. YOU'VE BEEN DODGING THAT QUESTION THIS ENTIRE TIME, BUT I KNOW ALL THE REST.
[True.
It is incompatible. Ford wants him gone, maybe dead. Bill would like himself not gone and has taken great pains to ensure that he is not dead.
The actually, genuinely good thing to do here would be to leave Ford the fuck alone and let him be happy in his own life, without Bill. And not make performative gestures to demand his attention.
Bill is not a good person.]
YOU'RE WELCOME.
... THAT'S WEIRD TO NOT BE THANKED SARCASTICALLY!
[True!
"""""Thanks"""""" for stuffing socks into all the shower drains again, Bill.]
[A sigh so heavy it has its own gravitational field.]
We do what we came here to do. And we try to hold this boat together long enough to do it.
[They're not friends, but they're not enemies either. It's not the kind of attention Bill wants. Ford still wants to get off the ship and away for good. He doesn't trust Bill. He's going to keep working on his contingency plan. But as far as the integrity of the ship is concerned -- they're not at cross-purposes.
Well, Bill doesn't want Ford to be happy. He wants Ford to be interested. From Ford's point of view, right now those things are mutually exclusive, and he'd rather be happy. So, the solution is easy in theory, difficult in practice: Bill has to just show him that he can have both.]
IF I WANTED TO GO WITH THAT, I WOULDN'T HAVE COME TO TALK TO YOU. BUT IF THAT'S ALL YOU CAN THINK OF ... I'LL DO IT.
Ford looks at the ring on the screen like he can't believe it.
He still hates Bill Cipher a lot. He hates what Bill did to him, and what Bill did to his family, and what he tried to do to his world. He remembers what Bill did to Dipper while Dipper was possessed. He remembers waking up in a pool of blood.
But Ford also remembers pushing Fiddleford to exhaustion, pushing for the portal test, driving him to madness. He remembers doing nothing when Stanley was pushed out the door. He remembers all the things he justified to himself when he was building Experiment 618.
It's never too late for anyone to change. Isn't that the point of this whole operation? If Ford really is the one thing Bill Cipher cares about, is it going to get Bill any closer to graduation, and being neutralized as a cosmic threat, to pretend he isn't there?
Ugh. Ugh, ugh, ugh. Ford didn't sign up for that. His instincts rebel at the underlying principles. Bill is lying; of course he's lying, he's trying to win, trying to trick. It's a con. This whole conversation has been one. Wouldn't it be hilarious if, after everything Bill's done to Ford, he managed to get Ford to think that maybe he could be better, only to pull the rug out from under him at the last second?
...but if it is, Bill's running this con in a way Ford's never seen. It's very emotional. It's missing tight control.
Ford looks at Bill sideways, darkly.]
I'm not going to go back to chasing you around with a death ray.
[Aaagh. That was real. He'd nearly forgotten about that very disturbing chess set.
Ugh. Nope. Sorry, Bill, screaming chess doesn't sound like a good time. Ford leans in, jabs a finger at the screen.]
Reading, on opposite sides of the library. Silently. With no eye contact.
[He doesn't expect this to be agreed to, either. But he has no idea what compromise is going to look like either, and in the absence of an answer, this has taken on the cadence of bartering.]
[WOW THANKS HE HATES IT. You know, for a semi-omniscient being from before the beginning of the physical universe, you are REALLY not doing a good job of convincing him to give you his time.]
[Here's how Bill has read this situation: he has license to do banter until Ford says 'boo hoo, shut up, I'm not as good at banter as you are.' Which he just did.]
HAHAHA. I'M JUST GIVING YOU A HARD TIME, FORDSY. HE'S ACTUALLY NOT THAT MUCH LIKE YOU BESIDES THE HOBBIES.
[True.]
WHAT ELSE DO YOU LIKE TO DO?
[Correct grammar? Do math by hand? Get angry about minor lore changes in tabletop games? Slowly lose brain elasticity? Shoot brother? Try to build something complicated to solve a simple problem?
...All the sarcastic things he has kindly chosen not to say out loud aside, the actual issue is that most of the things they did casually together thirty years ago are completely tainted.]
[What do you even like to do? Invade people's dreams? Make yourself a giant nuisance? Get your thumb on the pulse of everyone on this ship and manipulate the ones you feel will be useful? Crack jokes no one else thinks are funny? Pour dri--
There it is. That'll work.]
Yes, all right, let's do that.
[It's better than anything else that's been suggested. And Ford could use one, after some of the revelations and decisions that have been made today. It really doesn't matter what time of day this conversation is taking place. It could be 7 AM. Ford is still going to drink. With Bill, if he must. It sure looks like that's what's happening.]
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
momijizukamori
no subject
Date: 2018-04-14 02:38 pm (UTC)[True.]
FOR SOMEONE HUNG UP ON WHAT'S TRUE AND WHAT'S A LIE, YOU'RE REALLY GOING ALL-IN ON THIS SUDDEN IMPULSE TO CONNECT. THEY'RE EXPLOITING HOW EASY IT IS TO WIN YOU OVER, YA KNOW. BUT ARE THEY GONNA STAY FOR THIRTY YEARS? OR HAVE YOU NEVER HAD ANYBODY BESIDES ME STAY THAT LONG, BECAUSE YOU REPLACED THEM WITH SOMETHING NEW AND EXCITING?
[Both true and designed to twist and manipulate what's actually happening, which is Ford getting out of a frankly horribly abusive interpersonal connection. You can't even reasonably call this a friendship, since neither of them are pretending to like each other.]
I BROKE YOUR DEAL. I CAN'T UN-HURT ANYBODY. THAT'S ALL I GOT. CONSIDER ME GONE.
[True. He sounds bitter this time. He actually has no idea if Ford's going to regret this but he needs to cut his losses like he should have way earlier on. He's really good at predicting that people don't give a damn. It becomes a self-fulfulling prophecy. Most prophecies are.]
no subject
Date: 2018-04-14 04:18 pm (UTC)He's been making things for the people on the ship he likes. What if he has been extending trust too easily? What if he's just going to end up used again?
Whoops, desperate isn't a good look, and exploitably gullible is even worse. A wall that had come down around Ford's heart creeps back up.]
I don't--
[He sighs. Wearily:]
I don't expect them to.
[But I won't be here long enough for that to matter dies in his throat. How long is it going to take to make sure Bill is under control? He doesn't know. It won't matter to Stan or the kids, they won't know the difference, but for Ford? It could be years. It feels like a very, very long road stretching out in front of him.
Strangely, the brightest spot on it was what he'd been thinking about a minute ago: the possibility that maybe, if Bill does stay here long enough, he might change. The hope had dimmed when Ford had found out it was him, and Bill had said things about I think I watched you die and I don't even recognize you. He'd known, then, that there was nothing he could do: Ford Pines is not the man for this job, and he's never going to offer Bill what Bill has been missing. But Bill has also said That's all I got and I can't un-hurt anybody. Weird things to say to someone you find disgusting.
Ford sighs. Okay. This is probably going to amount to nothing, but there's just enough room for doubt that he's going to ask.]
Fine. But before you go, and this is really over, there's one last thing I want to discuss.
Are you only letting me out of this deal because you don't want it anymore? Because I'm never going to be what you do want ever again, and you've given up?
[He doesn't sound hopeful. Mostly, he sounds resigned. Ford's expecting yes. He's expecting it to be for the reasons Bill outlined, and nothing else. He's imagining the very possibility. But better to clear it up now than to wonder later and not have the chance to bring it up.]
no subject
Date: 2018-04-14 11:23 pm (UTC)But, he doesn't get the misunderstanding, and the next part's more important anyway. Bill's expression pinches; his brow folds to a stressed little peak in the middle. If Ford was any good, he'd already have the answer just from this, but -
Ford's no good. That's one of the reasons Bill can just relax around him, because Ford CAN surprise Bill, sometimes, but Bill still doesn't need to be actually careful the way he would around, say, Erskine, or Cold. He can afford to telegraph a little. It's safe. (Alright, maybe that's a little far. SafER. Bill is ultimately not worried about anything Ford could do to him.)]
YES.
[Ring flashes. Lie. Bill's expression twists even more.]
IT'S ...SOMETHING YOU WANTED, AND I COULD DO IT.
LIKE I SAID. I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT YOU WANT OUT OF ME ANY MORE.
[True.]
1/2
Date: 2018-04-15 02:20 am (UTC)But this whole conversation has happened based on the premise that the ring can be relied upon to determine truth--at least, the truth as Bill sees it. So, until something happens that undermines that premise, Ford will accept it.
And...Ford makes an expression like he's just been handed something he has absolutely no idea what to do with. Like someone else's ice cream. Or four kittens. Or an emotion. No, seriously, what on earth is he supposed to do with this?
The effects of the act themselves don't mean much. Ford can't be possessed anyway; he has the plate for that. Mechanically, it doesn't change anything Bill can or can't do to him. It's, ha ha, it is the thought that counts, here -- because it's the thought that he matters enough to Bill Cipher for Bill to consider a thing he, Ford, might want. Even though Ford isn't interested in the games Bill misses. Even though Bill knows he never will be.
Bill might graduate. Certainly not soon, and Ford has a deep suspicion that by-the-books graduation is not Bill's plan A (Bill hates rules, hates systems, he's not going to not cheat) but if Bill stays here long enough, he might. Ford both wants and doesn't want to believe it. But isn't he himself proof that no matter how old you are, it isn't too late to change?]
Bill, I--
[What does Ford want? He wants to not have to worry about Bill, absolutely. He wants to use what he knows about Bill keep the people on the Barge and the rest of the multiverse safe from him. He wants to go home with a clear conscience. He wants to see his family again. He doesn't want a life with Bill in it.
(He's building a containment unit specifically made for Bill. This is awkward.)]
2/2
Date: 2018-04-15 02:24 am (UTC)Aaaah, what you want and what I want are fundamentally incompatible.
That said...even though the reason I made the deal in the first place is because you lied to me, and you've taken advantage of it countless times to do me harm, and really it won't make a difference at all because I've still got this plate in my head, and I know for a fact that you're doing this at least partially because you don't want anything to do with me and that includes an outstanding mystic bargain, so you really don't deserve it, but...
[He breathes in, then blows out a sigh. He really had better do this, hadn't he. Ford can't believe he's about to, but he...he feels he should. It doesn't make a difference mechanically, but it is a gesture. Maybe it'll matter, maybe it won't. Who knows.]
...you didn't have to do this. Thank you.
no subject
Date: 2018-04-15 04:37 am (UTC)[True.
It is incompatible. Ford wants him gone, maybe dead. Bill would like himself not gone and has taken great pains to ensure that he is not dead.
The actually, genuinely good thing to do here would be to leave Ford the fuck alone and let him be happy in his own life, without Bill. And not make performative gestures to demand his attention.
Bill is not a good person.]
YOU'RE WELCOME.
... THAT'S WEIRD TO NOT BE THANKED SARCASTICALLY!
[True!
"""""Thanks"""""" for stuffing socks into all the shower drains again, Bill.]
WHAT DO WE... DO NOW?
[This question also means: what are we?]
no subject
Date: 2018-04-16 07:44 pm (UTC)We do what we came here to do. And we try to hold this boat together long enough to do it.
[They're not friends, but they're not enemies either. It's not the kind of attention Bill wants. Ford still wants to get off the ship and away for good. He doesn't trust Bill. He's going to keep working on his contingency plan. But as far as the integrity of the ship is concerned -- they're not at cross-purposes.
Feels weird.]
no subject
Date: 2018-04-16 08:44 pm (UTC)I MEAN WHAT DO WE DO.
no subject
Date: 2018-04-16 08:56 pm (UTC)[It's so, so clear that his hopes of that happening aren't high.]
no subject
Date: 2018-04-17 01:20 am (UTC)[True. And now he has to... think.
He's been on the ship long enough that he can get a grip on the concept that if you like someone you want them to be happy. "You want what's good for them" and "An apology should be about the person you hurt, not yourself." blah blah blah.
Well, Bill doesn't want Ford to be happy. He wants Ford to be interested. From Ford's point of view, right now those things are mutually exclusive, and he'd rather be happy. So, the solution is easy in theory, difficult in practice: Bill has to just show him that he can have both.]
IF I WANTED TO GO WITH THAT, I WOULDN'T HAVE COME TO TALK TO YOU. BUT IF THAT'S ALL YOU CAN THINK OF ... I'LL DO IT.
[True.]
no subject
Date: 2018-04-17 02:47 am (UTC)He's serious.
Ford looks at the ring on the screen like he can't believe it.
He still hates Bill Cipher a lot. He hates what Bill did to him, and what Bill did to his family, and what he tried to do to his world. He remembers what Bill did to Dipper while Dipper was possessed. He remembers waking up in a pool of blood.
But Ford also remembers pushing Fiddleford to exhaustion, pushing for the portal test, driving him to madness. He remembers doing nothing when Stanley was pushed out the door. He remembers all the things he justified to himself when he was building Experiment 618.
It's never too late for anyone to change. Isn't that the point of this whole operation? If Ford really is the one thing Bill Cipher cares about, is it going to get Bill any closer to graduation, and being neutralized as a cosmic threat, to pretend he isn't there?
Ugh. Ugh, ugh, ugh. Ford didn't sign up for that. His instincts rebel at the underlying principles. Bill is lying; of course he's lying, he's trying to win, trying to trick. It's a con. This whole conversation has been one. Wouldn't it be hilarious if, after everything Bill's done to Ford, he managed to get Ford to think that maybe he could be better, only to pull the rug out from under him at the last second?
...but if it is, Bill's running this con in a way Ford's never seen. It's very emotional. It's missing tight control.
Ford looks at Bill sideways, darkly.]
I'm not going to go back to chasing you around with a death ray.
...but I am willing to discuss a compromise.
no subject
Date: 2018-04-17 04:45 am (UTC)SO WHAT'S THAT LOOK LIKE?
...WANNA LOSE TO ME AT CHESS?
MY CHESS SET SCREAMS! I SHOWED YOU, BUT YOU THOUGHT YOU WERE HAVING A NIGHTMARE.
[true. it's supposed to do things other than scream, but bill is very mean to the tiny chess men.]
no subject
Date: 2018-04-17 02:50 pm (UTC)Ugh. Nope. Sorry, Bill, screaming chess doesn't sound like a good time. Ford leans in, jabs a finger at the screen.]
Reading, on opposite sides of the library. Silently. With no eye contact.
[He doesn't expect this to be agreed to, either. But he has no idea what compromise is going to look like either, and in the absence of an answer, this has taken on the cadence of bartering.]
no subject
Date: 2018-04-17 05:36 pm (UTC)[Ford, he knows the contents of every book before it gets published. Have you ever seen him read a god damn book?]
WE COULD SIT CLOSER TOGETHER.
[Wzr eurv lq d oleudub vlwwlqj 10 bdugv dsduw ehfdxvh wkhb'uh qrw jdb.]
no subject
Date: 2018-04-17 06:42 pm (UTC)Don't push your luck.
[There is literally no way that, if it isn't a joke, ""closer"" means anything good. Grq'w pdnh wklv zhlug.]
no subject
Date: 2018-04-17 08:44 pm (UTC)[he's just fucking with you now and I'm sorry]
no subject
Date: 2018-04-17 09:21 pm (UTC)[Sdghsgf. Asdgflja. Don't bother trying to decode that. It's just Ford's brain making a recordscratch noise.]
What?! No!
[Bhs.
He slams his palm down on the desk, rallying. His eyes are narrowed, his jaw tense.]
This is about finding a way to coexist on the Barge, not--not whatever it is you're referring to.
[Which didn't happen.
Which even if it had happened would be ancient history and not at all relevant to the situation at hand. But it didn't. So it doesn't matter.]
no subject
Date: 2018-04-17 09:40 pm (UTC)HAHAHAHA.
HEY, EVERYTHING DESERVES ITS FAIR SHARE OF CONTEXT, THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING. STILL WANNA GO READING?
no subject
Date: 2018-04-17 09:57 pm (UTC)[Way to go, you made it weird.]
no subject
Date: 2018-04-17 10:02 pm (UTC)Look Upon My Works, Ye Mighty, And Eat Shit]
YOU COULD READ AND I COULD WORK ON A PROJECT ACROSS THE ROOM WITH THE YOUNGER GUY I REPLACED YOU WITH! THEN IT DEFINITELY WOULDN'T BE WEIRD!
[God, leave Quentin out of this, Bill. He deserves better than this hideous tire fire.]
no subject
Date: 2018-04-18 02:13 am (UTC)Hey, I don't have to do this, you know!
no subject
Date: 2018-04-18 03:04 am (UTC)HAHAHA. I'M JUST GIVING YOU A HARD TIME, FORDSY. HE'S ACTUALLY NOT THAT MUCH LIKE YOU BESIDES THE HOBBIES.
[True.]
WHAT ELSE DO YOU LIKE TO DO?
[Correct grammar? Do math by hand? Get angry about minor lore changes in tabletop games? Slowly lose brain elasticity? Shoot brother? Try to build something complicated to solve a simple problem?
...All the sarcastic things he has kindly chosen not to say out loud aside, the actual issue is that most of the things they did casually together thirty years ago are completely tainted.]
...DO YOU WANNA JUST GET A DRINK?
no subject
Date: 2018-04-18 03:31 am (UTC)There it is. That'll work.]
Yes, all right, let's do that.
[It's better than anything else that's been suggested. And Ford could use one, after some of the revelations and decisions that have been made today. It really doesn't matter what time of day this conversation is taking place. It could be 7 AM. Ford is still going to drink. With Bill, if he must. It sure looks like that's what's happening.]
no subject
Date: 2018-04-18 03:37 am (UTC)I'LL UNLOCK IT, THERE SHOULDN'T BE ANYBODY ON STAFF RIGHT NOW.
[true]
no subject
Date: 2018-04-18 04:53 am (UTC)