[Ford knows about the ring, but he doesn't entirely trust that Bill can't manipulate it. He wouldn't stake his life on it, and he won't trust it without question in this case.
...really, it's Bill himself that gives him the most pause. If he had told this to Ford jovially, with a wink and a flourish and some comment about good behavior and graduation, Ford wouldn't trust it a 2D dimension's width. He has been playing against Bill long enough to know what Bill's like when he's making a move.
This feels off. Wrong. Diminished.
I didn't want it to be anyone but you.]
...what are you saying? Do you mean -- you don't want revenge on me anymore?
[If--if--this is true, then Bill must be moving on to other plans. He's still dangerous. He's still up to something. This doesn't mean Ford or anyone else on this barge is safe.
It just means Bill is ending the game with Ford. He doesn't want to play what he saw as their interdimensional chess match. Something about their last conversation must have spoiled the game.
Oh no. Bill isn't having fun anymore. Cry him a river.]
[This is weird. Like really, really weird. Ford knows he's not special, not a hero, and his own importance is dubious at best and "the man who caused a localized apocalypse" at worst. His ego's in a good place, the right place, and Ford is comfortable with his humility.
But for some reason -- for half a lifetime of reasons -- it stings to hear Bill say it.
What on earth. No. No, this is what he wants: the days of Bill plaguing him, hanging over his head, turning the people on the ship against him before they even meet, they're over. Ford knows exactly what it is he wants, and that's for Bill to either not exist or be removed completely from the lives of the people Ford cares about.
It's a god damned shame this isn't the end of it. He can't say it's really over. If only Steve weren't a factor, then Ford could just let go, could worry about how to complete a universal signature scanner and whether Iris likes him or not and if it matters. But the Barge isn't safe. The multiverse isn't safe. This isn't personal. It isn't a game between them. It's better that way.]
...it won't make any difference. This plate isn't going anywhere. I'm not taking any chances -- you're never possessing me again.
HEY, HERO'S BROTHER, I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU DO WITH YOUR PLATE.
[He points to the ring, insistently. It hasn't called him out yet. He has a couple ideas regarding where else Ford can stick his plate, but it's not enough to trip this as a lie.]
THE WHOLE THING WAS A RED HERRING TO KEEP ME AWAY FROM FEZ. IT MIGHT LITERALLY BE THE REASON YOU WERE BORN! YOU REALLY HAVEN'T PICKED THAT UP YET?
[Oh man. This idea ticks him off. He's okay not being important, he's okay not being a hero, but existing in order to ensure Bill would misread the prophecy? Being a part of a cosmic puzzle to be--what? It's not coming into being to be tricked that ticks him off, or to spend thirty years chasing Bill through countless realities.
It's reducing his entire life to a footnote on Bill Cipher's page.
(And any cosmic puppeteer, any god, who would put him on Earth knowing he would go through the winter of 1982...Ford isn't sure he wants to meet them. He's not sure he wouldn't sock them in the jaw.)
Ford isn't sure how to articulate how he feels, how to say I'm not for you, or my life means something apart from you. But mmm boy he is mad. He jabs a finger at the tablet.]
You are not the reason I exist. It doesn't work like that.
I don't believe it! There's always an element of paradox where prophecies are concerned, but I can't believe the answer is that it was all designed with you in mind! You're not the center of the multiverse, Cipher!
[see, this is such a good dynamic, he misses this.]
DO YOU HAVE ANY CONCEPT OF HOW LONG A TRILLION YEARS IS? THE BIG BANG THAT MADE THE PHYSICAL UNIVERSE ONLY HAPPENED BECAUSE I DECIDED NOT TO CLOSE MY HAND AROUND THE INFINITELY SMALL POINT THIS TIME.
YOU NEVER STOOD AT CHANCE AT KEEPING UP. AND I'M TIRED OF HANGING BACK FOR YOU!
[Uuugh but that doesn't matter! The universe exists! You can't go back and say you really could have stopped the bomb if you'd wanted to and expect people to be impressed after it's gone off!
Ford's expression as he listens is a little hurt and deeply unimpressed, a combination that's usually incompatible, but not for Ford Pines. Angrily:]
And I'm tired of chasing you! We may have both ended up on this boat, Bill, but our circumstances couldn't be more different. At least when I get out of here, I've got someone to go back to. You're still just as alone as you were when you didn't bother to stop the creation of the universe.
[To an uncaring being trillions of years old, it is not the punchiest comeback. Bill will probably laugh it off as the evolutionary weakness of a social animal. Whatever. Ford's mostly saying it for himself, anyway: it helps to remind himself of what he's here for, what's waiting for him, what he has that Bill doesn't.
...but yeah he totally just weaponized his character development and the things he loves most in the world in an argument. Ha ha, Bill, he's happy.]
GOOD! WHY WOULD I WANT THAT? PEOPLE ALWAYS DISAPPOINT YOU, FORDSY. YOU JUST WAIT 'TIL THE HONEYMOON PHASE IS OVER. EVEN THOSE KIDS KNOW WHICH TWIN IS THE SPARE. THEY'LL PICK HIM OVER YOU EVERY TIME.
YOU'VE GOT NOTHING. NOT AS SMART AS YOUR RESEARCH PARTNER, NOT AS IMPORTANT AS YOUR BROTHER - YOU'RE JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER RUN-OF-THE-MILL HUMAN SATISFIED TO LEAD A LIFE OF SNIVELING MEDIOCRITY!
[Bill holds up the ring. It can't measure absolute truth, but it stays dark: Bill believes everything he's saying.]
WHY WOULD I WANT TO BE LIKE YOU, HUH? WHY WOULD I EVEN WANT TO GET IN YOUR HEAD ANY MORE, WHAT'S IN THERE I WANT? COME ON, I'M ASKING!
Edited (whups he wouldn't know about the journals thing :/) 2018-04-10 06:11 (UTC)
[Ow. Ouch, ow, that cuts. Yes, he knows the kids would choose Stan. They're right to choose Stan. Doesn't mean it doesn't hurt.
It's true. He's got nothing except his family, and his family isn't here. He doesn't know when he's going to get back to them, because he's got to deal with an unbeatable monster he thought he'd already beaten. An echo of familiar despair sinks its claws into Ford's heart: having nothing but an impossible goal is a feeling he knows all too well. He knows where the old determination is, and he knows how to draw on it when it's the only resource he has. He knows how to harden his heart to everything else but the objective: stop Bill. Go home.
But this time he doesn't have to do it alone. There are people here that Ford thinks that maybe he can trust. The despair, tight as a tourniquet, loosens. He's not lost, and it's not hopeless. It's just going to take a little time.
When he speaks again, it's still angry, but it's not a retort, it's a qualifying question. Sure, he expects a "HA HA HA NO," but he's still asking.]
In all your trillions of years, have you ever really cared about anybody? Was there anyone, in any dimension, that actually mattered to you?!
[Answering a question with a question is both rude and nonsensical, but if the answer to this is "no," then no, there's nothing for Bill in Ford's mind, because he'll never understand, and that will be that. Go on, answer. Let's test that ring.]
[Breach memories of being Bill Pines in the breach over Respite rear up so suddenly it almost shows on his face. (Redimere is here too, fainter: he cared about his sisters, in a distant way, the lawbreaking gang of redheaded nieces on Jean's side.) Before Respite, Stan had taken a bullet for Bill Pines. It had hurt worse than if he'd just stayed out of the way and Bill hadn't understood why even then. (Similar, more vivid: 7718's reeling terror at the sudden possibility of losing Ford and Rhys in one night.) Things had been different afterwards. Mostly Pines didn't tell either of his stupid, self-sacrificing parents if he was going to get into something dangerous because he didn't want -... (7718 completes the thought again with the feeling of stepping backwards into thin air. One dead. One hospital. Phasma still out there.)
He remembers growing up running in circles around Soos, vidcalls with Dipper. (Redimere helped Jean adopt her son.) Taking a shuttle out of the Core to see Mabel's school play. But that's just the thing, isn't it? They're not Soos and Dipper and Mabel, they're Question Mark, Pine Tree, and Shooting Star. (Phoenix and Odd.) None of this ever really happened.]
[Bill makes a snap assessment that his only option is to double down and use what the ring's just given him instead of trying to weasel around it. He still pulls it off before he starts talking again.]
YEAH. YOU THINK I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT, BUT WHAT IF I DO, HUH?
NOT ONCE HAS IT BEEN WORTH IT AT THE END! IT'S IN THE NATURE OF PEOPLE TO DISAPPOINT YOU! I DON'T WANT THEM OR NEED THEM AND THAT INCLUDES Y̡̘̬͍̺̻O̡̰̠͉̽̆Ǘ̺̬̏̽̀̂, PAL.
Tell me you know what you're talking about. That you don't want or need anyone, and that it will never be worth it.
[Because now he's curious. Bill took the ring off because he's hiding something about this, and it's like finding a tiny crack in a perfectly smooth rock face. Ford wants to take a chisel to it. Wedge it open. Find out what's inside. He really shouldn't be doing this: Luke had told him not to antagonize Bill, and basically everyone else has advised Ford to leave Bill alone, but he's...not really thinking about that, whoops. He's not perfect. The axolotl is still working on him.]
[His fists clench. Those were childhood dreams, Cipher. But you can't distract him by reminding him of his crisis of faith in NASA. You can't. Even if it's upsetting.]
WOW! STILL NOT ASKING! I TOOK A PICTURE OF YOUR TATTOO WHILE YOU WERE DEAD AND I STILL HAVE IT! WHO KNOWS WHEN I'M GONNA POST IT! IT COULD BE ANY TIME!
[ring verdict: very true. Get your game on, go play.
Mmm okay. He had to psych himself up so he believes this before he says it. It doesn't matter that he's been trying to replace Ford for a year, or that every time he can get someone to actually work on trying to play the game with him they leave. (Or they're bad at it.) And the version of Ford he misses is either dead or never existed. Lie until you're not lying any more.
The glee of bantering with Ford drains back away to the second dull, bitter expression Bill had at the beginning.]
I DON'T NEED ANYONE. ESPECIALLY YOU. JUST TAKE WHAT I GAVE BACK TO YOU AND GO HOME.
[Oh no, the tattoo. Ford cringes. Bill is pulling out all the stops here to redirect Ford's attention. That's concerning and definitely potentially embarrassing, but not actually important. Ford's narrowed down the statement through trial and error, and he thinks he's found the element Bill is unwilling to talk about with the ring on.]
Needing someone and wanting them are very different things, Cipher.
You want people, don't you? You always did surround yourself with lackeys and hangers-on. Are you missing your crowd of flatterers?
[If so, allow him to repeat himself: boo fucking hoo.]
[The ring doesn't appreciate sarcasm and lights up.
It takes a very particular crowd to cheer for the destruction of the physical universe and question nothing. Those guys don't have a brain in their heads. The lights are on, but nobody's home.
Bill had known some of them before they'd sworn themselves to the Nightmare Realm. They'd started out interesting enough, ambitious, independent ... somewhere along the way they just flattened out. Stopped being fun to talk to, because he wouldn't hear anything new or fun or challenging - it's like trying to play chess against yourself. They couldn't leave the Nightmare Realm through the dreamscape like Bill could (Bill has never met another being that could access the dreamscape the way he can.) and that kind of isolation...
Oh well. Shit happens. The point is, he's sure all they've talked about while he's been gone is 'what do we do without Bill?' and he couldn't care less what the answer is.
Also, Ford is an idiot and if this conversation keeps going Bill is going to volleyball spike his conciousness into the Scorpion Dimension.]
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
Video
...really, it's Bill himself that gives him the most pause. If he had told this to Ford jovially, with a wink and a flourish and some comment about good behavior and graduation, Ford wouldn't trust it a 2D dimension's width. He has been playing against Bill long enough to know what Bill's like when he's making a move.
This feels off. Wrong. Diminished.
I didn't want it to be anyone but you.]
...what are you saying? Do you mean -- you don't want revenge on me anymore?
[If--if--this is true, then Bill must be moving on to other plans. He's still dangerous. He's still up to something. This doesn't mean Ford or anyone else on this barge is safe.
It just means Bill is ending the game with Ford. He doesn't want to play what he saw as their interdimensional chess match. Something about their last conversation must have spoiled the game.
Oh no. Bill isn't having fun anymore. Cry him a river.]
Video
[Bill raises his gaze and it looks acidic, but in an impersonal way.]
WE WERE BOTH SEEING SOMETHING THAT WASN'T THERE. YOU'RE NOT SPECIAL. YOU DIDN'T EVEN END UP BEING IMPORTANT!
I'VE WASTED ENOUGH TIME ALREADY. YOU WANT OUT, CONGRATULATIONS, YOU'RE OUT.
Re: Video
But for some reason -- for half a lifetime of reasons -- it stings to hear Bill say it.
What on earth. No. No, this is what he wants: the days of Bill plaguing him, hanging over his head, turning the people on the ship against him before they even meet, they're over. Ford knows exactly what it is he wants, and that's for Bill to either not exist or be removed completely from the lives of the people Ford cares about.
It's a god damned shame this isn't the end of it. He can't say it's really over. If only Steve weren't a factor, then Ford could just let go, could worry about how to complete a universal signature scanner and whether Iris likes him or not and if it matters. But the Barge isn't safe. The multiverse isn't safe. This isn't personal. It isn't a game between them. It's better that way.]
...it won't make any difference. This plate isn't going anywhere. I'm not taking any chances -- you're never possessing me again.
Video
[He points to the ring, insistently. It hasn't called him out yet. He has a couple ideas regarding where else Ford can stick his plate, but it's not enough to trip this as a lie.]
THE WHOLE THING WAS A RED HERRING TO KEEP ME AWAY FROM FEZ. IT MIGHT LITERALLY BE THE REASON YOU WERE BORN! YOU REALLY HAVEN'T PICKED THAT UP YET?
Video
...the reason I was born?
Bill, are you telling me that you think the only reason I exist is to be a distraction?!
[That is rude, pal.]
Video
YOU KNOW, KIND OF A BIG COSMIC PROPHECY HERE. THE FACE OF A MAN DESTINED TO DEFEAT ME, ALL THAT KIND OF THING?
Video
[Oh man. This idea ticks him off. He's okay not being important, he's okay not being a hero, but existing in order to ensure Bill would misread the prophecy? Being a part of a cosmic puzzle to be--what? It's not coming into being to be tricked that ticks him off, or to spend thirty years chasing Bill through countless realities.
It's reducing his entire life to a footnote on Bill Cipher's page.
(And any cosmic puppeteer, any god, who would put him on Earth knowing he would go through the winter of 1982...Ford isn't sure he wants to meet them. He's not sure he wouldn't sock them in the jaw.)
Ford isn't sure how to articulate how he feels, how to say I'm not for you, or my life means something apart from you. But mmm boy he is mad. He jabs a finger at the tablet.]
You are not the reason I exist. It doesn't work like that.
...it can't.
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YEAH, 'CAUSE IF THERE'S ONE THING I CAN RELY ON YOU FOR, IT'S TO KNOW HOW IT CAN AND CAN'T WORK.
[Feel free to assume he's still talking to you, Ford. Half of him is!]
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[so many layers of irony here.]
Video
DO YOU HAVE ANY CONCEPT OF HOW LONG A TRILLION YEARS IS? THE BIG BANG THAT MADE THE PHYSICAL UNIVERSE ONLY HAPPENED BECAUSE I DECIDED NOT TO CLOSE MY HAND AROUND THE INFINITELY SMALL POINT THIS TIME.
YOU NEVER STOOD AT CHANCE AT KEEPING UP. AND I'M TIRED OF HANGING BACK FOR YOU!
Video
Ford's expression as he listens is a little hurt and deeply unimpressed, a combination that's usually incompatible, but not for Ford Pines. Angrily:]
And I'm tired of chasing you! We may have both ended up on this boat, Bill, but our circumstances couldn't be more different. At least when I get out of here, I've got someone to go back to. You're still just as alone as you were when you didn't bother to stop the creation of the universe.
[To an uncaring being trillions of years old, it is not the punchiest comeback. Bill will probably laugh it off as the evolutionary weakness of a social animal. Whatever. Ford's mostly saying it for himself, anyway: it helps to remind himself of what he's here for, what's waiting for him, what he has that Bill doesn't.
...but yeah he totally just weaponized his character development and the things he loves most in the world in an argument. Ha ha, Bill, he's happy.]
Video
YOU'VE GOT NOTHING. NOT AS SMART AS YOUR RESEARCH PARTNER, NOT AS IMPORTANT AS YOUR BROTHER - YOU'RE JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER RUN-OF-THE-MILL HUMAN SATISFIED TO LEAD A LIFE OF SNIVELING MEDIOCRITY!
[Bill holds up the ring. It can't measure absolute truth, but it stays dark: Bill believes everything he's saying.]
WHY WOULD I WANT TO BE LIKE YOU, HUH? WHY WOULD I EVEN WANT TO GET IN YOUR HEAD ANY MORE, WHAT'S IN THERE I WANT? COME ON, I'M ASKING!
Video
Yes, he knows the kids would choose Stan. They're right to choose Stan. Doesn't mean it doesn't hurt.
It's true. He's got nothing except his family, and his family isn't here. He doesn't know when he's going to get back to them, because he's got to deal with an unbeatable monster he thought he'd already beaten. An echo of familiar despair sinks its claws into Ford's heart: having nothing but an impossible goal is a feeling he knows all too well. He knows where the old determination is, and he knows how to draw on it when it's the only resource he has. He knows how to harden his heart to everything else but the objective: stop Bill. Go home.
But this time he doesn't have to do it alone. There are people here that Ford thinks that maybe he can trust. The despair, tight as a tourniquet, loosens. He's not lost, and it's not hopeless. It's just going to take a little time.
When he speaks again, it's still angry, but it's not a retort, it's a qualifying question. Sure, he expects a "HA HA HA NO," but he's still asking.]
In all your trillions of years, have you ever really cared about anybody? Was there anyone, in any dimension, that actually mattered to you?!
[Answering a question with a question is both rude and nonsensical, but if the answer to this is "no," then no, there's nothing for Bill in Ford's mind, because he'll never understand, and that will be that. Go on, answer. Let's test that ring.]
Video
He remembers growing up running in circles around Soos, vidcalls with Dipper. (Redimere helped Jean adopt her son.) Taking a shuttle out of the Core to see Mabel's school play. But that's just the thing, isn't it? They're not Soos and Dipper and Mabel, they're Question Mark, Pine Tree, and Shooting Star. (Phoenix and Odd.) None of this ever really happened.]
IF I EVER THOUGHT I DID, I WAS WRONG.
[The ring glows.]
Video
Is that so?
...
...are you sure that thing's working right? It's not prone to malfunctioning, is it?
Video
YEAH. YOU THINK I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT, BUT WHAT IF I DO, HUH?
NOT ONCE HAS IT BEEN WORTH IT AT THE END! IT'S IN THE NATURE OF PEOPLE TO DISAPPOINT YOU! I DON'T WANT THEM OR NEED THEM AND THAT INCLUDES Y̡̘̬͍̺̻O̡̰̠͉̽̆Ǘ̺̬̏̽̀̂, PAL.
Video
That just made Ford about two hundred percent more willing to believe in its impartiality.]
What, don't you think you can say that with your magic ring on?
Video
ASK ME.
Video
[Because now he's curious. Bill took the ring off because he's hiding something about this, and it's like finding a tiny crack in a perfectly smooth rock face. Ford wants to take a chisel to it. Wedge it open. Find out what's inside. He really shouldn't be doing this: Luke had told him not to antagonize Bill, and basically everyone else has advised Ford to leave Bill alone, but he's...not really thinking about that, whoops. He's not perfect. The axolotl is still working on him.]
Go on. I'm listening.
Video
[Bill turns his arm in a huge, many-angled arc to point at the ring. Dark.]
AND I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT! AND PEOPLE ARE NEVER WORTH IT.
Video
Now the other part.
[He crooks his fingers. Come on, out with it.]
Video
[ring verdict: very true. Get your game on, go play.
Mmm okay. He had to psych himself up so he believes this before he says it. It doesn't matter that he's been trying to replace Ford for a year, or that every time he can get someone to actually work on trying to play the game with him they leave. (Or they're bad at it.) And the version of Ford he misses is either dead or never existed. Lie until you're not lying any more.
The glee of bantering with Ford drains back away to the second dull, bitter expression Bill had at the beginning.]
I DON'T NEED ANYONE. ESPECIALLY YOU. JUST TAKE WHAT I GAVE BACK TO YOU AND GO HOME.
[True.]
Video
Needing someone and wanting them are very different things, Cipher.
You want people, don't you? You always did surround yourself with lackeys and hangers-on. Are you missing your crowd of flatterers?
[If so, allow him to repeat himself: boo fucking hoo.]
video
[The ring doesn't appreciate sarcasm and lights up.
It takes a very particular crowd to cheer for the destruction of the physical universe and question nothing. Those guys don't have a brain in their heads. The lights are on, but nobody's home.
Bill had known some of them before they'd sworn themselves to the Nightmare Realm. They'd started out interesting enough, ambitious, independent ... somewhere along the way they just flattened out. Stopped being fun to talk to, because he wouldn't hear anything new or fun or challenging - it's like trying to play chess against yourself. They couldn't leave the Nightmare Realm through the dreamscape like Bill could (Bill has never met another being that could access the dreamscape the way he can.) and that kind of isolation...
Oh well. Shit happens. The point is, he's sure all they've talked about while he's been gone is 'what do we do without Bill?' and he couldn't care less what the answer is.
Also, Ford is an idiot and if this conversation keeps going Bill is going to volleyball spike his conciousness into the Scorpion Dimension.]
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