Tell me you know what you're talking about. That you don't want or need anyone, and that it will never be worth it.
[Because now he's curious. Bill took the ring off because he's hiding something about this, and it's like finding a tiny crack in a perfectly smooth rock face. Ford wants to take a chisel to it. Wedge it open. Find out what's inside. He really shouldn't be doing this: Luke had told him not to antagonize Bill, and basically everyone else has advised Ford to leave Bill alone, but he's...not really thinking about that, whoops. He's not perfect. The axolotl is still working on him.]
[His fists clench. Those were childhood dreams, Cipher. But you can't distract him by reminding him of his crisis of faith in NASA. You can't. Even if it's upsetting.]
WOW! STILL NOT ASKING! I TOOK A PICTURE OF YOUR TATTOO WHILE YOU WERE DEAD AND I STILL HAVE IT! WHO KNOWS WHEN I'M GONNA POST IT! IT COULD BE ANY TIME!
[ring verdict: very true. Get your game on, go play.
Mmm okay. He had to psych himself up so he believes this before he says it. It doesn't matter that he's been trying to replace Ford for a year, or that every time he can get someone to actually work on trying to play the game with him they leave. (Or they're bad at it.) And the version of Ford he misses is either dead or never existed. Lie until you're not lying any more.
The glee of bantering with Ford drains back away to the second dull, bitter expression Bill had at the beginning.]
I DON'T NEED ANYONE. ESPECIALLY YOU. JUST TAKE WHAT I GAVE BACK TO YOU AND GO HOME.
[Oh no, the tattoo. Ford cringes. Bill is pulling out all the stops here to redirect Ford's attention. That's concerning and definitely potentially embarrassing, but not actually important. Ford's narrowed down the statement through trial and error, and he thinks he's found the element Bill is unwilling to talk about with the ring on.]
Needing someone and wanting them are very different things, Cipher.
You want people, don't you? You always did surround yourself with lackeys and hangers-on. Are you missing your crowd of flatterers?
[If so, allow him to repeat himself: boo fucking hoo.]
[The ring doesn't appreciate sarcasm and lights up.
It takes a very particular crowd to cheer for the destruction of the physical universe and question nothing. Those guys don't have a brain in their heads. The lights are on, but nobody's home.
Bill had known some of them before they'd sworn themselves to the Nightmare Realm. They'd started out interesting enough, ambitious, independent ... somewhere along the way they just flattened out. Stopped being fun to talk to, because he wouldn't hear anything new or fun or challenging - it's like trying to play chess against yourself. They couldn't leave the Nightmare Realm through the dreamscape like Bill could (Bill has never met another being that could access the dreamscape the way he can.) and that kind of isolation...
Oh well. Shit happens. The point is, he's sure all they've talked about while he's been gone is 'what do we do without Bill?' and he couldn't care less what the answer is.
Also, Ford is an idiot and if this conversation keeps going Bill is going to volleyball spike his conciousness into the Scorpion Dimension.]
[Wow, thanks, nice of the ring to confirm that he's embarrassing himself. If he were to write a journal entry on it, that would absolutely go in the description.]
Okay, okay! Yeesh!
[...but now his mind's working on the problem. If Bill didn't care about anyone at home, and he didn't care about his friends in the Nightmare Realm, what does that leave? Not anyone in Ford's universe, surely, since he was willing to destroy that without a second thought. So--]
[listen it can only tell you what bill thinks is true. its not an arbiter of universal answers. give it a break its working very hard under difficult conditions.]
YEAH, YOU KNOW! WHY NOT! JUST KEEP GUESSING, AND DIGGING THIS HOLE DEEPER!
[It all makes sense. Another immortal omniscient omnipotent being, but one with a benevolent mission, that still enjoys messing with mortals. He even has a misleading cosmic callsign. Of course. Why didn't he see it before?]
Well, that's just great. You two deserve each other! Enjoy your eternity of vaguely answered questions and inaccurate nautical titles.
You know, it's really annoying having that ring back you up on every insulting thing you say about me. Ugh, and the Admiral would have made perfect sense!
[Okay, okay. Time to get serious.]
Listen here, Bill. You've been alive for trillions of years. I spent half my life learning everything I could about you, and I never found any indication that you had any feelings about anyone but yourself that weren't, you know, things like disdain, and sadistic amusement, and violent fury...that kind of thing. To find out that you want companionship from someone is...I didn't think it was possible.
Frankly, I'm still not sure I believe it.
But if it's what I suspect, and someone on this ship matters to you -- Bill, that's the most interesting thing I've learned about you in decades. [He laughs, and breaks a grin.] This place might be getting to you after all.
Edited (Mmm too many feelings in one tag, icon choice is hard) 2018-04-12 00:07 (UTC)
[They're not going to get into whether or not he cares what else Bill is up to. Thank god Ford hasn't tried the truth ring gambit. He's got one containment plan in the works and one murder plan that he's in denial about being a murder plan.
Because it means you're changing! You're older than the physical universe, but after just two years on this boat, you've found somebody who matters to you! Don't you see how unbelievable that is?
[God. He has no idea who it could be. Dillon, maybe? Jean? ...ugh god he hopes it's not Quentin, that would be...troubling. Yikes.
But man. Maybe there's something to the Admiral's methods, crude and incomprehensible as they might be.]
[Technically he can get this by, if he wants to, and throw Ford off the trail permanently. Technically, yes. It is because of things that have happened on the ship.
The first few months he hadn't missed Ford. He'd picked up a new set of people on day one, selected pretty carefully as candidates. Bleeding Heart, Snowflake, Sparky, Gold. Sharp, dangerous in their own way, prone to temper and protectiveness when pushed. He'd put them through their paces and they'd buckled. Quit or backed off or drawn up into performative apathy like playing possum. Snowflake became useful, but Bill's already got a thousand people that are useful and not one of them is he ever going to see as an equal.
Heart was the worst case. He actually outsmarted Bill on a deal. He had fun with it. He played the game. Then Bill got ugly, and he left. Wasn't worth it. That's the reaction he gets nine hundred and ninety nine times out of a thousand. Just not worth it.
There had been Sixers before Ford, people marked by destiny with the same sign. The last guy killed himself when he learned there was no way to stop from being a vessel for Bill even though, y'know, he signed up for this. They usually do. They usually give up as soon as Bill shows his other face and isn't what they were promised. What, you thought a god would be kind? Why? They usually build him temples, and appease, and Bill thinks it's funny but couldn't find it more boring.
Heart wasn't Ford, and the old Sixers weren't Ford, and Q isn't Ford despite best efforts. And Bill has lost Ford three times now (didn't even get to outsmart him in a fair fight) and every time it happens it gets worse to try to turn around and pretend it doesn't matter to Bill either way, because, fuck. Maybe it's a lot harder to find someone that thinks you're worth it than he'd ever imagined, and maybe for the first time Bill wants something he can't replace.]
YEAH, THAT WOULD BE UNBELIEVABLE. KID, CAN YOU HONESTLY SAY IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE TO YOUR LIFE EITHER WAY?
[whoops, he said he wasn't going to use nicknames in this conversation. That just slipped out.]
[Ford sighs, and pinches his nose. If he were socially smarter, he'd be more careful what he says here. But he's not. He's an idiot who runs his mouth, especially where Bill is concerned, because he's very used to assuming Bill already knows everything.
And Ford, except under very specific pushing-for-his-way-through-sheer-confidence-and-giving-no-one-the-chance-to-argue circumstances, isn't actually that great a liar.
So, whee, honesty hour, let's go.]
I don't know! Ever since I found out how you survived, I was certain that the only way you were getting off this boat was by breaking out! After everything I sacrificed to get rid of you, you still found a way to weasel out of it! And here you are, living it up in the most touchy-feely prison in the whole multiverse, playing the same games with a ship full of people who think that just because they know you're a liar, that means they can handle you! I'm very concerned that this ship can't hold you, and I don't trust it or the Admiral to keep you in check forever!
[He's mad about that -- about all of that. Seriously, fuck you, and fuck you for surviving. But when Ford goes on, his tone changes. Some of the anger goes out of it, and it's more...it's not quite wonder, and it's not even related to hope, but it's something quieter.]
But if it's actually working on you...who knows? I didn't expect that. I certainly didn't think it would happen that quickly. I thought it would take another couple of centuries at least! True, it's not much, and knowing you I'll bet it's kind of... [he makes a wiggly hand gesture here that implies fucked up, twisted, and kind of disgusting] eh, questionable. But it's still lightyears beyond anything I thought was even possible.
I don't know what it means. Maybe it won't mean anything! After all, personal feelings don't always stop you. Sometimes, they don't even slow you down.
[Mmmm he sure knows what that's like. Sometimes all personal feelings do is make you feel worse when it's over. Give him a second to wallow in his own mistakes.]
[Yeah, it turns out being stuck with the same group of people you can't get away from and who remember you and warn each other about you when you're not around makes you think harder about the consequences of your actions.]
I'M NOT GETTING OUT THAT WAY. I MADE A DEAL.
THIS DOESN'T LEAVE THE ROOM, PINES. IF WHITE STAR DOESN'T THINK I'M COMMITTED I'M NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO STOP HIM AGAIN.
[Bill scowls, but the ring confirms. Even the last word there.]
NO, STEVE! THIS ISN'T THE FIRST TIME HE'S TRIED TO BLOW UP THE SHIP, SOMEONE HAS TO BE THERE TO STAB HIM IN THE BACK AT THE LAST MINUTE. WE'RE GETTING OFF-TOPIC!
[True.]
I KNOW WHY THIS MATTERS TO ME ALREADY! WHY DOES IT MATTER TO YOU?
[Look he first met Steve while Steve was a merman, okay, and not wearing any kind of shirt at all, much less one with a star, cut him some slack. Though now that he thinks about it, there was footage from that Big Brother flood that had him in a spangled uniform. Ok, cool, got it. That's the situation they're talking about. Bill didn't take the opportunity to leave when Steve damaged the Barge? Bill stopped him?
It can't be that simple. Bill can't be sitting here waiting to get redeemed, that's not how he does things. There must be more to it -- something else Bill is up to, some other way he plans to get around the system. He frowns and files this information away for another time, when he's not dealing with Bill directly.
Speaking of, it's time to do Ford's favorite thing: breeze past questions he doesn't want to answer with bravado and deflection!]
That's not important. What matters is, you might actually have a chance of getting out of here! Bill Cipher, graduating from the Barge. Ha ha, that -- that's weird. Who'd have thought?
So, who is it? If it's not the Admiral, then it must be one of the wardens or inmates. Is it Luke? ...it's probably Luke.
[Can Stanford Pines Direct The Conversation Away From How No Matter How Many Times He's Told Bill Isn't His Problem He Is Too Worried About Impending Disaster To Turn A Blind Eye? The Answer Will Surprise You!]
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
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That just made Ford about two hundred percent more willing to believe in its impartiality.]
What, don't you think you can say that with your magic ring on?
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ASK ME.
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[Because now he's curious. Bill took the ring off because he's hiding something about this, and it's like finding a tiny crack in a perfectly smooth rock face. Ford wants to take a chisel to it. Wedge it open. Find out what's inside. He really shouldn't be doing this: Luke had told him not to antagonize Bill, and basically everyone else has advised Ford to leave Bill alone, but he's...not really thinking about that, whoops. He's not perfect. The axolotl is still working on him.]
Go on. I'm listening.
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[Bill turns his arm in a huge, many-angled arc to point at the ring. Dark.]
AND I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT! AND PEOPLE ARE NEVER WORTH IT.
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Now the other part.
[He crooks his fingers. Come on, out with it.]
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[ring verdict: very true. Get your game on, go play.
Mmm okay. He had to psych himself up so he believes this before he says it. It doesn't matter that he's been trying to replace Ford for a year, or that every time he can get someone to actually work on trying to play the game with him they leave. (Or they're bad at it.) And the version of Ford he misses is either dead or never existed. Lie until you're not lying any more.
The glee of bantering with Ford drains back away to the second dull, bitter expression Bill had at the beginning.]
I DON'T NEED ANYONE. ESPECIALLY YOU. JUST TAKE WHAT I GAVE BACK TO YOU AND GO HOME.
[True.]
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Needing someone and wanting them are very different things, Cipher.
You want people, don't you? You always did surround yourself with lackeys and hangers-on. Are you missing your crowd of flatterers?
[If so, allow him to repeat himself: boo fucking hoo.]
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[The ring doesn't appreciate sarcasm and lights up.
It takes a very particular crowd to cheer for the destruction of the physical universe and question nothing. Those guys don't have a brain in their heads. The lights are on, but nobody's home.
Bill had known some of them before they'd sworn themselves to the Nightmare Realm. They'd started out interesting enough, ambitious, independent ... somewhere along the way they just flattened out. Stopped being fun to talk to, because he wouldn't hear anything new or fun or challenging - it's like trying to play chess against yourself. They couldn't leave the Nightmare Realm through the dreamscape like Bill could (Bill has never met another being that could access the dreamscape the way he can.) and that kind of isolation...
Oh well. Shit happens. The point is, he's sure all they've talked about while he's been gone is 'what do we do without Bill?' and he couldn't care less what the answer is.
Also, Ford is an idiot and if this conversation keeps going Bill is going to volleyball spike his conciousness into the Scorpion Dimension.]
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video
Bill's hands ball into little fists.]
NO! JUST LET IT GO, PINES. YOU'RE EMBARRASSING YOURSELF.
[That 'genius' slipped out under sarcasm but otherwise Bill hasn't used a nickname once.]
YOU'VE BEEN VERY CLEAR ABOUT WHAT YOU WANT HERE, SO STOP LOOKING THIS IN THE MOUTH OR YOU'RE NOT GOING TO LIKE WHAT YOU FIND.
[The ring stays dark throughout.]
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Okay, okay! Yeesh!
[...but now his mind's working on the problem. If Bill didn't care about anyone at home, and he didn't care about his friends in the Nightmare Realm, what does that leave? Not anyone in Ford's universe, surely, since he was willing to destroy that without a second thought. So--]
Wait, wait. I've got it. Oh, no, Bill. You don't.
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YEAH, YOU KNOW! WHY NOT! JUST KEEP GUESSING, AND DIGGING THIS HOLE DEEPER!
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[It all makes sense. Another immortal omniscient omnipotent being, but one with a benevolent mission, that still enjoys messing with mortals. He even has a misleading cosmic callsign. Of course. Why didn't he see it before?]
Well, that's just great. You two deserve each other! Enjoy your eternity of vaguely answered questions and inaccurate nautical titles.
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[Lie.]
WE'RE VERY HAPPY, CAN YOU BE DONE? I CAN'T EVEN EXPLAIN HOW AWKWARD THIS IS.
[Also a lie. Bill's eye narrows to a mean little sliver.]
FINE, I COULD EXPLAIN. BUT I DON'T WANT TO! AND YOU DON'T REALLY CARE. I DON'T KNOW WHY YOU'RE BEING LIKE THIS ABOUT IT, BUT IT'S NOT A GOOD LOOK!
[All true.]
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[Okay, okay. Time to get serious.]
Listen here, Bill. You've been alive for trillions of years. I spent half my life learning everything I could about you, and I never found any indication that you had any feelings about anyone but yourself that weren't, you know, things like disdain, and sadistic amusement, and violent fury...that kind of thing. To find out that you want companionship from someone is...I didn't think it was possible.
Frankly, I'm still not sure I believe it.
But if it's what I suspect, and someone on this ship matters to you -- Bill, that's the most interesting thing I've learned about you in decades. [He laughs, and breaks a grin.] This place might be getting to you after all.
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[Ring confirms as true. Ha ha ha. Dumbass.
Ford continues, and Bill flinches, like he's trying to hand him something disgusting. Which, you know. A load of shit generally is.]
JUST - STOP IT. YOU DON'T CARE WHAT I DO OR WHAT I'M UP TO UNLESS IT'S MY PERSONAL LIFE? GET A GRIP.
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[They're not going to get into whether or not he cares what else Bill is up to. Thank god Ford hasn't tried the truth ring gambit. He's got one containment plan in the works and one murder plan that he's in denial about being a murder plan.
But that's old stuff. This is new.]
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WHY DOES IT MATTER?
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[God. He has no idea who it could be. Dillon, maybe? Jean? ...ugh god he hopes it's not Quentin, that would be...troubling. Yikes.
But man. Maybe there's something to the Admiral's methods, crude and incomprehensible as they might be.]
Video (suicide mention from backstory)
The first few months he hadn't missed Ford. He'd picked up a new set of people on day one, selected pretty carefully as candidates. Bleeding Heart, Snowflake, Sparky, Gold. Sharp, dangerous in their own way, prone to temper and protectiveness when pushed. He'd put them through their paces and they'd buckled. Quit or backed off or drawn up into performative apathy like playing possum. Snowflake became useful, but Bill's already got a thousand people that are useful and not one of them is he ever going to see as an equal.
Heart was the worst case. He actually outsmarted Bill on a deal. He had fun with it. He played the game. Then Bill got ugly, and he left. Wasn't worth it. That's the reaction he gets nine hundred and ninety nine times out of a thousand. Just not worth it.
There had been Sixers before Ford, people marked by destiny with the same sign. The last guy killed himself when he learned there was no way to stop from being a vessel for Bill even though, y'know, he signed up for this. They usually do. They usually give up as soon as Bill shows his other face and isn't what they were promised. What, you thought a god would be kind? Why? They usually build him temples, and appease, and Bill thinks it's funny but couldn't find it more boring.
Heart wasn't Ford, and the old Sixers weren't Ford, and Q isn't Ford despite best efforts. And Bill has lost Ford three times now (didn't even get to outsmart him in a fair fight) and every time it happens it gets worse to try to turn around and pretend it doesn't matter to Bill either way, because, fuck. Maybe it's a lot harder to find someone that thinks you're worth it than he'd ever imagined, and maybe for the first time Bill wants something he can't replace.]
YEAH, THAT WOULD BE UNBELIEVABLE. KID, CAN YOU HONESTLY SAY IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE TO YOUR LIFE EITHER WAY?
[whoops, he said he wasn't going to use nicknames in this conversation. That just slipped out.]
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And Ford, except under very specific pushing-for-his-way-through-sheer-confidence-and-giving-no-one-the-chance-to-argue circumstances, isn't actually that great a liar.
So, whee, honesty hour, let's go.]
I don't know! Ever since I found out how you survived, I was certain that the only way you were getting off this boat was by breaking out! After everything I sacrificed to get rid of you, you still found a way to weasel out of it! And here you are, living it up in the most touchy-feely prison in the whole multiverse, playing the same games with a ship full of people who think that just because they know you're a liar, that means they can handle you! I'm very concerned that this ship can't hold you, and I don't trust it or the Admiral to keep you in check forever!
[He's mad about that -- about all of that. Seriously, fuck you, and fuck you for surviving. But when Ford goes on, his tone changes. Some of the anger goes out of it, and it's more...it's not quite wonder, and it's not even related to hope, but it's something quieter.]
But if it's actually working on you...who knows? I didn't expect that. I certainly didn't think it would happen that quickly. I thought it would take another couple of centuries at least! True, it's not much, and knowing you I'll bet it's kind of... [he makes a wiggly hand gesture here that implies fucked up, twisted, and kind of disgusting] eh, questionable. But it's still lightyears beyond anything I thought was even possible.
I don't know what it means. Maybe it won't mean anything! After all, personal feelings don't always stop you. Sometimes, they don't even slow you down.
[Mmmm he sure knows what that's like. Sometimes all personal feelings do is make you feel worse when it's over. Give him a second to wallow in his own mistakes.]
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I'M NOT GETTING OUT THAT WAY. I MADE A DEAL.
THIS DOESN'T LEAVE THE ROOM, PINES. IF WHITE STAR DOESN'T THINK I'M COMMITTED I'M NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO STOP HIM AGAIN.
[Bill scowls, but the ring confirms. Even the last word there.]
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[He's the only person Ford can think of who has the power to stop Bill like that.]
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[True.]
I KNOW WHY THIS MATTERS TO ME ALREADY! WHY DOES IT MATTER TO YOU?
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It can't be that simple. Bill can't be sitting here waiting to get redeemed, that's not how he does things. There must be more to it -- something else Bill is up to, some other way he plans to get around the system. He frowns and files this information away for another time, when he's not dealing with Bill directly.
Speaking of, it's time to do Ford's favorite thing: breeze past questions he doesn't want to answer with bravado and deflection!]
That's not important. What matters is, you might actually have a chance of getting out of here! Bill Cipher, graduating from the Barge. Ha ha, that -- that's weird. Who'd have thought?
So, who is it? If it's not the Admiral, then it must be one of the wardens or inmates. Is it Luke? ...it's probably Luke.
[Can Stanford Pines Direct The Conversation Away From How No Matter How Many Times He's Told Bill Isn't His Problem He Is Too Worried About Impending Disaster To Turn A Blind Eye? The Answer Will Surprise You!]
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